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developerWorks  >  Lotus  >  Forums & community  >  Notes/Domino 6 and 7 Forum

Notes/Domino 6 and 7 Forum

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Is it?... re: Ridiculous
Nathan T. Freeman 10.Dec.02 12:45 PM a Web browser
Notes Client 6.0 Linux - RedHat, Linux - SuSE


OK, I looked at the BP forum, which is a fairly active and fairly typical Notes discussion forum,

A discussion populated almost exclusively by people who are supposed to be
experts in Notes is "fairly typical?"

At least (since I was very conservative) 15.5% use features that are not available in the edit control from the web.

15.5% use the features. So 84.5% don't. What was my threshold number again?

It is not fancy API stuff that makes the Notes client so powerful, it is the powerful rich text editor,

Have you fired up iNotes lately?

the spell checker,

iNotes?

the workspace,

You have GOT to be kidding. The workspace as a piece of key functionality?
Puh-lease, Ben. The only reason the workspace remains so prevalent is the fact
that building usable corporate portal systems in Notes based on profiles is too
much of a pain for most organizations to bother with.

the formula language that isn't available from the web client,

Can you tell me the things that are possible with @functions in the client that
I can't do in web clients? The entire point of the Domino server is to handle
this need for you.

the UI classes that aren't available from the web client.

The Notes client UI classes pale in comparison to what I can do with the
JavaScript DOM. The event model is considerably more complete. Perhaps only
the caret position in the NotesUIView is relevantly useful but unavailable to
the browser.

You can simulate some of these, but the Notes client is hugely more powerful than the web browser,

If you can simulate it, then the functionality is available to the user, and my
point stands.

and it takes way, way less work to do most things that are designed for a Notes client than to do the same for the web.

It's easier to work with a smart client than a dumb client? No surprise
there. But I said functionality, not development time. And when you can build
something in X time that will work with 90 million clients, or build something
in 3X time that will work with 500 million clients, there's certainly a good
reason to go with the latter.

In addition, many companies have many databases that are only used in the Notes client, and that would pose insurmountable challenges and costs to make available on a web client.

It's no secret to me that these applications are out there. Care to guess how
many of them I wrote? But if they pose "insurmountable challenges and costs,"
I'd suggest those companies contact me. nathan@openntf.org I'll be happy to
take on what's insurmountable and what's not.

If there were a Linux client, they would not have to, so the "cost" of any Linux web clients is greatly magnified.

If the applications are that critical, and the challenges to move to the web
are insurmountable, then the company's willingness to pay extra for a Linux
client should be the delta between the TCO for Windows clients and the TCO for
Linux clients.

The problem is, the TCO for Linux at the desktop is turning out to be *higher*
than for Windows at this point, mostly because Linux expertise is more
expensive.

I'm sorry, but for the ordinary user, the difference between the Notes client and the web browser is in no way 80% of the functionality.

I can't pay for it, but I would be happy to participate in a usability
comparison lab with you on this. We just need specs for, say, 4 fairly simple
applications, one built for the browser and one built for the client. Then we
can see what level of functionality is achieved in what platform.

Maybe for simple e-mail, but not even for calendaring and scheduling.

So 1/5 of the capabilities of the native C&S client are unavailable to iNotes
clients? Do you have a list?

It is just a ridiculous assertion, mush as I respect you, Nathan.

I'll be happy to compare individual feature lists. You can't just through
something off like "@functions." @Functions aren't user functionality.
They're a programming tool used to achieve user functionality. Which means
they can either be interpretted by the Domino server (@userName) or mimicked
using other programming tools (@DbLookup).

Unfortunately, it is all too common a misconception.

If it's a misconception, I will gladly accept substantive counter-argument.
Shall we list out 100% of the features of the native client, then list 100% of
the capabilities of the browser as a Domino client, and count 'em up? I'm game.




Notes on Wal-Mart machines (Andrew Price 4.Dec.02)
. . huh? (Ed Brill 4.Dec.02)
. . . . - or the other way around, Ed Brill... (Espen Ødegaard 5.Dec.02)
. . . . RE: huh? (Jason Collier 4.Dec.02)
. . . . . . RE: huh? (James Greene 4.Dec.02)
. . . . Of course not ... (Andrew Price 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . RE: Of course not ... (Markus Hubler 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . Windows Installer? (Neal Howard 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . That can't be the reason (Thomas Gumz 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . * I love how Notes doesn't depend o... (Andrew Price 5.Dec.02)
. . . . Isn't it?... re: huh? (Nathan T. Freem... 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . * Well said. A custom winelet is my... (Andrew Price 5.Dec.02)
. . . . A couple of examples ... (Andrew Price 5.Dec.02)
. . . . RE: huh? (MARK D Davenpor... 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . Fitness for a particular purpose (Ed Brill 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . * I, at least, am not advocating No... (Andrew Price 5.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . * I, at least, am not advocating No... (MARK D Davenpor... 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . one reason (Ed Brill 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . One way to remove the cost ... (Andrew Price 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . who does the testing to ensure comp... (Ed Brill 7.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . May I add to this thread... (Salvador Gimeno... 8.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -it could be done even more effecti... (Espen Ødegaard 9.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The licensee of course. Lotus could... (Andrew Price 8.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . It's a very different market ... (Andrew Price 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (MARK D Davenpor... 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Nathan T. Freem... 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (MARK D Davenpor... 6.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Nathan T. Freem... 9.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Salvador Gimeno... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Salvador Gimeno... 11.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Nathan T. Freem... 11.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Salvador Gimeno... 11.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fitness for a particular purpos... (Nathan T. Freem... 11.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Please let's end this discussion (Salvador Gimeno... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Please let's end this discussio... (Nathan T. Freem... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Please let's end this discussio... (Salvador Gimeno... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Please let's end this discussio... (Nathan T. Freem... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *Even easier than the trick is to u... (Ben Langhinrich... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Out of curiosity, why do you think ... (Ben Langhinrich... 11.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Out of curiosity, why do you th... (Nathan T. Freem... 11.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Out of curiosity, why do you th... (Stan Rogers 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Out of curiosity, why do you th... (MARK D Davenpor... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Out of curiosity, why do you th... (MARK D Davenpor... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Some of what you say is true, but 8... (Ben Langhinrich... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Some of what you say is true, b... (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ridiculous (Ben Langhinrich... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Is it?... re: Ridiculous (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I still say it is ridculous (Ben Langhinrich... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: I still say it is ridculous (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Wait, I never said that a Linux cli... (Ben Langhinrich... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Wait, I never said that a Linux... (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Here is how your stuff looks in a N... (Bill Ernest 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Then give me the iNotes RT control ... (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . never mind (Thomas Gumz 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *My sentiments exactly. Never mind.... (Ben Langhinrich... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Right on Ben. I really hate to try ... (Bill Ernest 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's not my fault we don't have a r... (Nathan T. Freem... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *And even so the template would hav... (Ben Langhinrich... 10.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RE: *And even so the template would... (MARK D Davenpor... 12.Dec.02)
. . . . . . . . Database Corrupt (srini J verma 8.Jan.08)


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