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developerWorks  >  Lotus  >  Forums & community  >  Notes/Domino 8 Forum

Notes/Domino 8 Forum

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Subject: Chat log from Second Life last night - Your Notes 8 questions answered
Feedback Type: Question
Product Area: Notes 8 Client
Technical Area: User Interface
Platform: Windows XP client
Release: Beta 2
Reproducible: Always

Jaymin Carthage: This is a general reception to celebrate the launching of Notes 8 in public beta.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome AndreAmaral Mills
Jaymin Carthage: Yes, I guess it's a few weeks late!
Jaymin Carthage: But mostly I wanted to invite our business partners, customers, and some of our developers together.
Jaymin Carthage: A conference call is good for one-to-many types of dialogs.
Jaymin Carthage: Email and chat are good for one-on-one dialogs.
Wayne1969 Homewood: Are IBM planning to do more of this type of thing? Can we see a SL lotussphere next year?
DanieleDP Aabye: avete gi partecipato a questo tipo di evento?
Daniel Korro: così disordinato no
Jaymin Carthage: Second Life has the advantage of capturing the many-to-many dialogs.
Lionello Rossini: no e voi?
Daniel Korro: adesso viediamo
Jaymin Carthage: We can all talk, move off into corners, and participate in several conversatoins.
Lionello Rossini: ok
Jaymin Carthage: Actually, there was a SL Lotusphere _this_ year! That's why this place got built.
Wayne1969 Homewood: hmm...missed that
Jaymin Carthage: We are considering ramping up our presence. But really it will be up to people like you.
Jaymin Carthage: This is, to some degree, an experiment.
Jaymin Carthage: You are welcome to give feedback via e-mail, via the surveys, or suggestion boxes as to how beneficial you find this sort of thing.
You: Is the reception now or in an hour
Jaymin Carthage: Daniel, do you want to talk about about how you are using Second Life.
Daniel Korro: Oh well :)
Jaymin Carthage: (The reception is now for the next two hours.)
Daniel Korro: I started using SL in late october but the first real useful meeting was this year's lotusphere
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Scott Spitz
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Stan Innis
Daniel Korro: IBM decided to run the first replay of the opening session here in SL
Jaymin Carthage: (It's still running, BTW, for those interested.)
Daniel Korro: And then I met Jaymin
Daniel Korro: So I'm here with my friends from the italian Domino user group (
Daniel Korro: we've also built an SL office
Taylor Bracken: Daniel - where is your sl office?
Daniel Korro: You may have noticed my friends with the dominopoint tshirt
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Chooch Enoch
Daniel Korro: Taylor, look for Dominopoint in SL group
Daniel Korro: there you find attached the note
Taylor Bracken: ok thanks
Daniel Korro: BTW the real master his Jaymin
You: how many rows are saved in the chat history window ?
Daniel Korro: he's building lot of neat stuff
Lotusphere Questionaire: Any comments on how we can make your second life experience with us better?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
Taylor Bracken: thanks for the survey
Lotusphere Questionaire: How do you think IBM could apply Second Life capabilities to help you in your business?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
Daniel Korro: ask him about his Sametime over the shoulder toy
Jaymin Carthage: You can click "history" to open a window. You can drag it around to maximize it.
Jaymin Carthage: There is also an option in your preferences to save your chat log to disk.
Jaymin Carthage: So how many people here are using the Notes Beta?
Nicolas Paravane: I am
Wayne1969 Homewood: yep
Lionello Rossini: i am
Daniel Korro: Me too
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Hawkwynd Slade
You: thanks
Jaymin Carthage: What do you consider the important new features of Notes 8.
Giuseppe Xeno: ancora deve iniziare?
Dominux Beery is Online
Nicolas Paravane: I guess the open office is one
Jaymin Carthage: Have people been getting the support they need from the Beta forum?
Jaymin Carthage: I've seen a lot of interest in the productiviy editors. More than I expected!
Daniel Korro: For me NSFDB2 and the plugin model based on eclipse
Lionello Rossini: i agree with Daniel
Taylor Bracken: I'd like to keep in contact with a rep - would it be possible to add someones contact info
Lionello Rossini: plug in model based on eclipse
Nicolas Paravane: Yep, I agree the possibility to update via update sites is great
Rune Rossini: will there be any arranged sessions here today?
Jaymin Carthage: I work in ISV technical enablement. You are welcome to friend me and ask me technical question anytime.
Taylor Bracken: Thanks Jaymin
Jaymin Carthage: Rune, this is just free form. We can talk about anything you like.
Rune Rossini: ok
Jaymin Carthage: We wanted to keep the first meeting less formal.
Rune Rossini: thats fine
Jaymin Carthage: I'm very excited about the Eclipse plugin model.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Alonso Giovinazzo
Nicolas Paravane: Will the release of Notes8 be any faster?
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Alonso Giovinazzo
You: when will we get Beta 3
Lionello Rossini: how about performance?
Daniel Korro: Ed Brill reported the new beta (internal) is faster
Nicolas Paravane: the standard client is kind of slow
Jaymin Carthage: I know that performance is the focus of a lto fo the work at the moment.
Qtzar Moody: Any word on how long after the 8.0 release we will get to see the mac client ?
Qtzar Moody: And will it be built on eclipse 3.3 or 3.2 ?
Taylor Bracken: Suggestion Box Example
Jaymin Carthage: Do we have anyone from the mac side here?
Daniel Korro: Is notes 8 supporting the full JVM 1.5 spec, different from ST 7.5 ?
Jaymin Carthage: I know some people using it internally. They say it's pretty good. But that's just water cooler talk.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome DahraMon Tuck
Jaymin Carthage: Daniel, initially, no. Both Notes 8 and ST 7.5 are built on expeditor, which ships with the cut down JCL Desktop JVM.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Dominux Beery
Jaymin Carthage: However you will have the option to run it with the full blown JVM.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Puckbud Zymurgy
Giuseppe Xeno: will a "standard" notes developper with designer be able to build composite applications?
Jaymin Carthage: I _think_ that will be available for Notes 8.
Jaymin Carthage: Guiseppe, yes, you can build a composite app purely with Notes components.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome NZ Yue
Andor Looby: The beta client is a non-production build. I think M5, which will be available as production, will be faster because less debug output's happening
Daniel Korro: Any specific reason for JCL Desktop Vs JVM 1.5 ?
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Judy Bristol
Jaymin Carthage: There are a few extra LotusScript calls to publish things, and an editor to declare properties an dactions.
You: How do you feel about posting this chatlog on the web ?
Jaymin Carthage: But it should all be familiar to a normal Notes designer.
Stan Innis: Components for composite apps can be built using designer
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Gunnar Harrop
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Jabbing Paine
Jaymin Carthage: notessidan, I think it would be OK to post a log of this.
Stan Innis: Then use the CAE to assemble them into a composite
Jaymin Carthage: I believe that fits under SL's acceptable use conduct guidelines.
Stan Innis: You don't need java
DanieleDP Aabye: news for the designer 8.x? News for a tools that develop an application 2.0?
Stan Innis: A composite app can be all notes components
Andor Looby: I can talk about Designer
Jaymin Carthage: Please do Andor.
NZ Yue: Hi People
NZ Yue: Join IBM Lotus Group
Andor Looby: perhaps people could ask more specific questions. Have seen beta? Most of the new stuff is around composite apps
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Hermione Fadoodle
Daniel Korro: Yes, I've played around with CAE but still need to get some time to play around with wiring
Stan Innis: Has anyone build a composite app with the CAE
Daniel Korro: Maybe it's a stupid quesiton but...
Jaymin Carthage: The trick is to desgin good components. Then wiring is easy.
Stan Innis: With wiring?
Stan Innis: We have had lots of discussion about wiring
Stan Innis: Are we making it too hard?
Daniel Korro: is it possible to have "click-to-action" alike behaviour ? or it's only wiring based (i mean CA)
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Fasperk Larsen
Stan Innis: Right now it's wiring only
Andor Looby: I've used CAE though I'm not one of the developers of it.
Jaymin Carthage: Daniel, there are programmatic ways to do ad-hoc relationships.
Jaymin Carthage: But not quite the c2a of portal yet.
Andor Looby: What "click" would you like to click to cause an action?
Jaymin Carthage: It's hard to spontaneous add thigns to the UI in a rich client.
Daniel Korro: Ok, those ways should be made "simple" trough some easy to use library
Jaymin Carthage: I create a sideshelf component that listend for property changes without a wire.
Jaymin Carthage: You can do it, but it does require Java programming.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Rune Rossini
Daniel Korro: let's say I'm on the name of a customer... i want to click on it and select which kind of drill down to execute
Andor Looby: the name of a customer on a Notes form?
Daniel Korro: With wiring if i click on it all wired parts "react"
Daniel Korro: I'd like to "direct" the action (like in Portal)
Daniel Korro: Yes, let's say a name in a view or in a text field on a form
Susan Zymurgy: Declan?
Andor Looby: I haven't seen the way portal does it, but there's a LotusScript API to the property broker, so anything you can write in LotusScipt to choose which property to publish...
Jaymin Carthage: Basically, you can do it, but you have to add the UI.
Daniel Korro: @Andor, I'll check into it
Jaymin Carthage: Portal has the advantage that it completely controls the UI.
Susan Zymurgy: where's the monkey?
Daniel Korro: which are the limits with Notes 8 ?
Jaymin Carthage: In a rich client it's, well, a richer experience, and the server doesn't hav ethe fidelity.
Susan Zymurgy: w're being logged
You: Why is Domino not shipped with an Application server so the CA will work on web ?
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Taylor Bracken
Andor Looby: you know how it is with Notes -- you can control use dialogs and such but you don't control every pixel
Lotusphere Questionaire: Any comments on how we can make your second life experience with us better?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
Andor Looby: that's the tradeoff for rapid development
Jaymin Carthage: notessidan, a lot of people would like that.
Jaymin Carthage: We woudl like to do that. But it's going to take a little time. It's very complex.
Daniel Korro: @Andor, absolutely right
Giuseppe Xeno: will wi see some new lotusscript classes to ease integration with the productivity editors?
You: Good question Xeno
Jaymin Carthage: Giuseppe, unfortinately there isn't right now to the best of my knowledge. :-(
Andor Looby: not sure what you mean Xeno
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Josef Prieto
Jaymin Carthage: I'm not even sure you can get to them via OLE.
Jaymin Carthage: You can put them in a composite app, though, and communicate that way.
Giuseppe Xeno: i mean: how can we integrate productivity editors with lotus notes applications?
Dominux Beery: you can't quite get to them via OLE because they are not registered
You: People do think that the integration between Notes & PE is what you get
NZ Yue: The Only problem so far I faced in IBM lotus 8 is its Heavy
Giuseppe Xeno: ole is not so easy with OO
NZ Yue: 1 gb is not enough either
Andor Looby: It ain't heavy, it's my brother
Dominux Beery: however at Lotusphere in session BP204 we did demo OLE integration of the productivity editors
Jaymin Carthage: You can always do the old deteach and launch. That works just like any other attachment. Not the best. But it works.
Daniel Korro: Xeno, with Notes 8 beta you get a PDF dedicated to integration with productivity editors. You can use that information along with java code in Lotusscript to control that
Dominux Beery: with a laptop of one of the developers
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Tashi Oh
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Doc Payne
Andor Looby: What specific classes and methods did you want, Xeno? Maybe there'a another way to do what you want
DanieleDP Aabye: for the PRINT control there are some tools?
Dominux Beery: If they turn on the OLE control of the editors then the API is the and StarOffice UNO api
Ebony Gray: thanks for the Cape
Welcome! shouts: Welcome epredator Potato
Dominux Beery: our code worked unmodified against and the productivity editors
Giuseppe Xeno: i would like to have an object model similar to the one priveded by MS office for ole integration
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Qtzar Moody
Giuseppe Xeno: so i can leverage my "ole office skill" and migrate from MS office to Productiy editors
Dominux Beery: the API is bigger and a bit more complicated than the MSoffice API
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Koed Beerbaum
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Austen Pennell
Dominux Beery: but you can wrap it with classes which abstract away the differences
Giuseppe Xeno: i know. thats why integration with OO is difficult
DanieleDP Aabye: @jaymin : for a developer web there are news? Ajax...Dojo...etc...? threre will
Bos Losee: hi Gunnar
Jaymin Carthage: I'm not sure, is there anyone here working on the web side?
Gunnar Harrop: Hi
Gunnar Harrop: Hur är lägetr
Bos Losee: nice haircut
DanieleDP Aabye: I work with web site of domino...always
Giuseppe Xeno: a lot of us works both in the client/side and the web area
Lionello Rossini: i do too
epredator Potato: hi all
Jaymin Carthage: Hey epredator!
epredator Potato: quite a gathering you have here :-)
Jaymin Carthage: Can any of you give a run down of new features for web publication in ND8?
Andor Looby: you mean for creating Domino web applications?
Jaymin Carthage: I think thta's what DanieleDP was asking baout
You: JSON support
DanieleDP Aabye: integrated AJAX suppory
DanieleDP Aabye: support
Giuseppe Xeno: standard XHTML by default
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Leonardo Cork
Leon Laurasia: hey nz!
NZ Yue: hey leon
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Ren Johin
Andor Looby: I'm not on the server side -- there's nothing new in Designer for support of web apps, but they might have made some iimprovements in how pages render, etc
NZ Yue: Join IBM Lotus Group
Leon Laurasia: ok
Leon Laurasia: how is it goin?
NZ Yue: you will get updates and share information
Leon Laurasia: kk
Qtzar Moody: there is already JSON support in 702 you just have to add something to the url. forget offhand right now
DanieleDP Aabye: @jaymin : The HTTP performance of the Domino are now best?
Giuseppe Xeno: support for gzip http would help performance a lot
Jaymin Carthage: Is there anyone from the performance group here?
Jaymin Carthage: I'm not directly familiar with the work in that area.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Daniel Korro
Andor Looby: @jaymin might have to talk louder
Leon Laurasia: /ao on
Jaymin Carthage: He he. People are welcome to split into groups.
Jaymin Carthage: We have a big space iwth lots of corners.
Giuseppe Xeno: how can we split Jaymin?
Lotusphere Questionaire: What can make composite applications more useful for you or easier to create?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
Jaymin Carthage: Physically, it's easy. Just move into areas. Normal "talk" only extends 20m.
Jaymin Carthage: Topically, I don't know. :-)
Giuseppe Xeno: i was mening Topically :-)
Jaymin Carthage: He he. Are there any BPs here who want to talk about their solutions?
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Marge Straaf
Daniel Korro: Hey, we ran out of Bps ?
Jaymin Carthage: He he.
Jaymin Carthage: Successes, failures with the beta?
Leon Laurasia: /ao off
DanieleDP Aabye: this event for me is badly anarchical organized...
Giuseppe Xeno: the beta is nice but need to be worked out on the performance side
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Darring Asp
Daniel Korro: Yes, performance is the worst side
Nicolas Paravane: it's really slow sometimes and hangs from time to time
Jaymin Carthage: Daniele, sorry about that. I would have liked to have been more organized. But I was asked to keep it informal.
Andor Looby: there's a lot going on around performance. One thing is, I just recently fixed it so that there are fewer unneeded poublish events
Andor Looby: publish I mean
Daniel Korro: Also this is a question that I've been asking myself for years.. .why Notes client setup cant be scripted ?
Andor Looby: fewer, hopefully none. :-)
Jaymin Carthage: OK. Do you think it might be memory consumption. I think the suggested memory for the client is a lot higher.
Giuseppe Xeno: yeah, will memory footprint remain the same?
Andor Looby: It is higher, Java will do that
Jaymin Carthage: Yes, it is definately higher.
DanieleDP Aabye: @jaymin : only you are there? there are not other Lotus People in 2nd life so that we can speak about...
Nicolas Paravane: I run it in VMWare with 1024 MB dedicated for that virtual machine. That should be enouhg
Andor Looby: setup can be customized. Companies do it all the time
Jaymin Carthage: I don't see that much performance difference between 7 and 8, but I've got 2 gigs of memory.
Andor Looby: Aabye, I work for Lotus
Jaymin Carthage: Yes, there are several Loti here. But it's on a volunteer basis.
Giuseppe Xeno: with only 1gig of memory, there is a huge difference in performance, i find myself running nlnotes.exe with the R8
Jaymin Carthage: I was asked to keep it a "reception" not a "press conference". So no official representation. Just enthusiastic employees. :-)
Daniel Korro: @Andor, it depends what you mean with customized :) . I want a way to hook my: Location Creation, Homepage setup, client setup and so on .. that's not covered currently. You can just use policies but it's not straight forward
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Hawkwynd Slade
Andor Looby: I'm not an admin expert, but maybe you can find one here if you look
DanieleDP Aabye: ciao vittorio
YogoCoola Kidd shouts: Morning everyone
Daniel Korro: @Andor, can you provide an @ or LS formula for setting the home db ?
Andor Looby: Daniel, you mean instead of bookmark.nsf?
Daniel Korro: yes
Andor Looby: Not offhand -- there might be an ini var, but why do you want to? You can just put a frame in your welcome page that points to whatever app
Welcome! shouts: Welcome DanieleDP Aabye
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Erik Curtiz
Jaymin Carthage: How many people are looking at Vista for the majority of their new deployments?
Marge Straaf: ew
Daniel Korro: eh eh ... that's the point :) I'd like something better (I've expericend sometihg with Expeditor extension points)
Lotusphere Questionaire: What can make composite applications more useful for you or easier to create?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
Daniel Korro: btw, there's no INI var :
Welcome! shouts: Welcome osamu Jie
Leonardo Cork: j
Marge Straaf: don't like drm, won't do vista
Andor Looby: Perhaps you could add a composite app to the bookmark.nsf.
Giuseppe Xeno: i'm looking for os/x for myself and "stay with XP" in the near time for my clients
You: will there be a PE app or do users need to open Notes to create a word doc ?
Jaymin Carthage: How about Linux? I've heard someone actually got th eclient running on Ubuntu.
Jaymin Carthage: I think you will get desktop icons to launch the PEs.
You: I mean stand alone app
Jaymin Carthage: I did at one point.
Jaymin Carthage: OK. I'm pretty sure IBM sells them for standalone use.
Hermione Fadoodle: j
Jaymin Carthage: I just don't know if the ND8 lisence will cover that.
NZ Yue: is IBm going to increase ND8 license cost ?
You: will there be a new Notes 8 icon ?
Jaymin Carthage: He he. Do we have anyone from sales? I don't know anything about pricing. There are so many different ways it is priced.
Jaymin Carthage: I think there is a new, more 3D icon.
Nicolas Paravane: I've had problems launching the PE's from the desktop icons
You: me too
Jaymin Carthage: Really? I haven't tried recently. But I used to be on WMC before ND8 and used them all the time.
Jaymin Carthage: I did the 'write a novel in november' thing using just the PE. :-)
Andor Looby: what's your novel about?
Nicolas Paravane: The process starts but goes down after a while
Jaymin Carthage: It's was a pretty bad space opera. It was my first. That I finished anyway. Last year's one was better. :-)
Giuseppe Xeno: PE are a nice improvement over OO but still not to the the "friendliness" of MS office
You: If I create a composite app , how will this look in R7
Andor Looby: less friendly because, no puppy?
Jaymin Carthage: You cannot view a composite app in N7 as a composite app.
Jaymin Carthage: All the notes components are still usable as normal notes components though.
Andor Looby: Yao, the composite app is ignored in 7 and it just opens as a regular app
You: I know , but what wll the R7 user see ?
Jaymin Carthage: We could add a paperclip? Would that be friendly? :-)
You: ok, thanks
Jaymin Carthage: Sorry, I think they will get a view like a blank application.
Andor Looby: one thing
Giuseppe Xeno: paperclip could be the killer feature
Jaymin Carthage: I can try right now...
Andor Looby: because the CA is a launch option, you don't get to specify the regular launch option
Andor Looby: unless you specify it to a frameset and set the frameset to launch the CA
Jaymin Carthage: That's an interesting trick. Maybe we should blog about it.
Andor Looby: we?
Jaymin Carthage: The Comp App team. Niklas's blog.
Taylor Bracken: How do we find out about other events like this one?
Andor Looby: you can see it in the mail file. It works much the same in Standard and Basic client
Taylor Bracken: Is there a blog / websites?
Nicolas Paravane: When will the nsf template for update site be available?
Andor Looby: @Taylor, watch LDD?
Jaymin Carthage: There isn't a specific blog about Lotus Events in Second Life.
Jaymin Carthage: But this got posted in many of the general Lotus blogs.
Jaymin Carthage: I'm also starting a blog about Business in Second Life in a few weeks.
ChristopherS Snook: How can I change my label above, so that it reflects my real name?
Jaymin Carthage: Unfortuately you can't change your name in Second Life.
Jaymin Carthage: But you can create an object, like Notessidan and Qtrar that puts up some text.
ChristopherS Snook: But how do you get those labels, like "Lotusphere architect" or "IBM Lotus Group"?
Nicolas Paravane: join a group
Jaymin Carthage: You can belong to groups in Second life.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Jam Boucher
Jaymin Carthage: They work sort of like your ACL in Notes.
Jaymin Carthage: "Lotusphere Architect" is the title for the group that maintains this parcel here.
Jaymin Carthage: But they can be purely social groups.
Nicolas Paravane: @Jaymin When will the nsf template for update sites be available?
Jaymin Carthage: NZ Yue is setting up a Lotus Group for interested Lotus techies. It's not maintenence related.
ChristopherS Snook: I see. understood!
ChristopherS Snook: thx for the info
Daniel Korro: @Nicolas, it's already available
Jaymin Carthage: Nicolas, it isn't already? I thoughg it was out there.
NZ Yue: thanx jaymin for clarification
Nicolas Paravane: sorry, must have missed it
Qtzar Moody: isn;t the update sites template already in the notes 8 beta. part of the server download
Daniel Korro: @Nicolas it's in the domino 8 server package
Jaymin Carthage: I rmember Niklas blogging about it. I haven't had the chance to hunt it down yet.
Nicolas Paravane: ok
Nicolas Paravane: thanks
Jaymin Carthage: We'll be using it as one of the forms the ISV sample app will be delivered with.
Andor Looby: Seems IBM Lotus Group is open to all, select Edit / Groups and press Search
Jaymin Carthage: Do you want to talk a bit, NZ, about the IBM Lotus Group and what you hope to do with it in Second Life?
Nicolas Paravane is Offline
Jaymin Carthage: In general the Lotusphere build here as been (informally) available to customers wanting to meet and talk about Lotus products in Second Life.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome CraigMan Wise
Jaymin Carthage: We're discussing a formal redesign of the space and want to build in such facilities. Suggestions welcome.
Jaymin Carthage: Has anyone been looking at implementing dual purpose plugins for both ST 7.5 and ND8?
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Flemming Congrejo
You: What has been changed regarding html rendering in the Notes 8 client ?
Jaymin Carthage: I think you have more options now.
Jaymin Carthage: Previously you just had the embedded browsers.
Daniel Korro: Jaymin, I've been doing cross-client plugins, but the JVM limitation is a killer
Andor Looby: Do we have anyone who knows?
Daniel Korro: the DB2 JDBC Driver doesn't wokr
Jaymin Carthage: Now that it's based on Eclipse you also have SWT browser control.
You: but will the notesclient support full HTML and CSS
Fasperk Larsen: hej
Fasperk Larsen: hej
Jaymin Carthage: I just added a Managed Broswer component to my comp app and linked it to the rest to display the web page of the selected company.
Marge Straaf: sorry
Jaymin Carthage: Daniel, please get back to me with what APIs are missing that you would like. I know someone who is trying to collect them so we can add the ones people most want.
Fasperk Larsen: Intet
Andor Looby: full CSS, no.
Jaymin Carthage: (my e-mail address is in my profile)
Andor Looby: let me use my telepathic power to find someone who knows more specifically
Fasperk Larsen: Det kr¦ver jo, at man kender til beta'en før man kan stille spørgsmål
Daniel Korro: Can you tell something about the embedded xulrunner ?
Jaymin Carthage: He he. I've heard discussions about that.
Daniel Korro: Can you explain why use the JCL Desktop jvm ?
Jaymin Carthage: But mostly about lisencing and what samples we can an cannot show.
Jaymin Carthage: JCL Desktop was mostly done for performance and footprint.
Jaymin Carthage: By having a cut down JVM, we decrease the amount of memory it takes up.
Jaymin Carthage: For example, there are very few use cases that need AWT when running under Eclipse.
Daniel Korro: Jaymin, this is clear but it's killing us ... (No generics ...)
Jaymin Carthage: Ah, as in the features of Java as opposed to the libraries?
Dominux Beery is Online
Daniel Korro: that would help
Daniel Korro: a lot :)
Jaymin Carthage: it's easier to support language features than libraries without being detrimental to the memory profile.
Jaymin Carthage: I came up with a really dumb workaround: I shelled out to the system JVM to play my sound. :-)
Jaymin Carthage: Since I only sparodically need to do it, it wasn't a big impact. Not a solutoin for most things though.
Daniel Korro: @Jay, understand but don't like this solution
Jaymin Carthage: No, it's a dumb solution! I agree.
Olivier Hildyard: What's about SL plug-in for Sametime ? public availability ?
Jaymin Carthage: Another approach is what they did in JCL desktop for sound is support a single type of sound format.
You: I saw a demo of Component Designer at Lotussphere that looked like Domino Designer, how is that work going ?
Daniel Korro: but, what about older agents (notes) built in java ? Is the standard client jvm shared for the agents runtime too ?
Jaymin Carthage: If you can limit yourslef to that format, I think you might be OK.
Jaymin Carthage: Component Designer is coming along fine and on schedule. I think it is due out soon. The components it creates can be used with ND8.
You: great
Jaymin Carthage: Older Java agents will work exactly the same. I'll have to check out the JVM usage. We may still have them run with their own JVM.
Jaymin Carthage: Ify ou click on my Sametime speech bubble you will get a notecard about it.
Andor Looby: Yao, I've found someone who can talk to your HTML questions. Please hang around
Jaymin Carthage: It is not public. I hope to get it on the Sametime Plugin Exchange someday.
Daniel Korro: So in Notes 8: JCL Desktop for the client + NLNotes.exe + JVM in NlNotes
Olivier Hildyard: ok, i hope too ;-)
You: Is the "Domino Designer Composite deisgner" a seperate product or is it just a layout in Compoenent Designer ?
Jaymin Carthage: @Daniel, could be. I'd have to check it out. It seems a bit convoluted. But so would revlaidating all existing java agents with JCL desktop!
Daniel Korro: ok ok :)
Jaymin Carthage: @Olivier, contact me later if you are a plugin developer. The big thing holding me back in a LDAP plugin to associate RL anames with SL names.
Jaymin Carthage: @Notessidan, let me give a run down of tools. It confuses a lot of people.
Daniel Korro: About ST ... I begun yestarday looking into SL RPC, we could build a SL <--> RL gateway for awareness
Welcome! shouts: Welcome notessidan Yao
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Amati Hyun
Jaymin Carthage: Sim crash.
You: yes
Jaymin Carthage: I guess next time we get a corner sim auditorium.
You: Did you do the product presentation
Jaymin Carthage: Product presentation? At Lotusphere? I was there, but with the ISV team.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Susan Zymurgy
Jaymin Carthage: Yep. Sim crash. I need to host it in a corner lot next time.
You: no, I mean you was saying somehitng about Component Designer
NZ Yue: jaymin
Jaymin Carthage: Sorry, I was going to go through the tools.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Olivier Hildyard
NZ Yue: as ur into ISV
NZ Yue: i have few queries , as we are an IBM business partner
Jaymin Carthage: Lotus Component Designer is a tool for creating basic components. It will create portelts for web apps or rich ones for the rich client.
NZ Yue: we develop applications on domino
Jaymin Carthage: It's nifty that way, but a little constrained.
Jaymin Carthage: NZ, sure, ask away!
Jaymin Carthage: But if you only required light weight stuff, it can be a good solution.
Jaymin Carthage: I have not used it myself, but we have someone in our group who leads it up for ISVs.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome LotusGeek Wise
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Letitia Coppola
Lotusphere Questionaire: Any comments on how we can make your second life experience with us better?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
Jaymin Carthage: But in addition to the classic Notes Client/Domino Designer, ther eare a few extensions.
Jaymin Carthage: On the client side, you have the Composite Application Editor.
Jaymin Carthage: CAE.
Jaymin Carthage: This was done on the client side since the model we are pursiing is that non-super-technical people can _assemble_ composite applictions.
Jaymin Carthage: We didn't want them to have to use designer.
Jaymin Carthage: On the designer side, you have a few small extensions where you can mark things as eithe rproperties or actions, and some extra LotusScirpt calls.
Jaymin Carthage: And then there is a WSDL editor plugin that lets you edit the WSDL files that declare propertie and actions.
Jaymin Carthage: You only need the Eclipse development environment if you are going to be creating Java components.
Andor Looby: we're trying to do as much as we can without editing the design, and then if you have to edit the design, without writing code.
Jaymin Carthage: Yes. For example, you can nominate a view to publish its value by just checking a checkbox in the info box.
LotusGeek Wise: Hey Andor, I am here
Jaymin Carthage: There are certain default actions, such as "filter this view by the first column". That's been quit ehandy in our composite app.
Jaymin Carthage: Sorry, the ISV sample app.
Andor Looby: hawdy
Jaymin Carthage: For example we just take a normal categorized view, say Sales Leads by Company, and deploy it as a component view.
Jaymin Carthage: We have another selection component that publishes the company name.
Jaymin Carthage: We then wire that company name to the filter for that view and we can then see just the leads for that company when it is selected.
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Nelson Milner
LotusGeek Wise: lol, nice outfite
Andor Looby: thanks -- how do you whisper?
LotusGeek Wise: send an im i think
Jaymin Carthage: Ctrl-Enter?
LotusGeek Wise: /whisper hey
Jaymin Carthage shouts: testing
Jaymin Carthage: Nope. That's shout.
Jaymin Carthage: :-)
Jaymin Carthage: NZ. You had a question?
Andor Looby: Yao, this geek man knows something about HTML in the client
Jaymin Carthage: Hey Amilvz! Welcome!
NZ Yue: its regarding SAP Domino Integration
Jaymin Carthage: We didn't get any expeditor questions today. :-(
Jaymin Carthage: NZ, OK. That's a popular one. :-)
Daniel Korro: Are you looking for expeditor questions ?
LotusGeek Wise: Nz, I am the developer and archiect of that
NZ Yue: wow
LotusGeek Wise: Notes/SAP integration - the Notes access for SAP solutions product - is mine
Jaymin Carthage: Amilvz works on the expeditor team.
Daniel Korro: Oh, that's great ..
You: Ok, If I send an mail containg HTML and CSS to a Notes 6/7 client the client will not understand the style
Lotusphere Questionaire: Any comments on how we can make your second life experience with us better?
Lotusphere Questionaire: Please type your answer into the chat console.
You: will this improve in R8
Daniel Korro: Hello
NZ Yue: its abt regading licensing
LotusGeek Wise: ok
Andor Looby: more chairs....
NZ Yue: one of my customer is using lotus domino and using SAP as well
Daniel Korro: Jaymin told me you work on Expeditor, is this right ?
NZ Yue: now they want to integrate there SAP Hr with domino
NZ Yue: they have 1 SAP license
NZ Yue: and 1000 lotus licenses
NZ Yue: now they want to transport data
Andor Looby: oops -- the geek has fled
Jaymin Carthage: Might have crashed. The new client has been doing that to me.
Jaymin Carthage: It overheats my laptop.
Andor Looby: I had an issue too.
NZ Yue: ywah it have a problem
Andor Looby: Laptop? You have a laptop with a graphics card compatible with SL?
Giuseppe Xeno: must be a NEW laptop
Jaymin Carthage: I'm using a T60p. With the latest drivers it works.
NZ Yue: yes i ve laptop with 512 nvidia grafix card too
Jaymin Carthage: He he. Someone in my group got budget at the end of last year.
Jaymin Carthage: Impressive.
Andor Looby: hm. just got a T60p, I'll have to try it.
Jaymin Carthage: It's not a big widescreen one, but that's OK for me.
Jaymin Carthage: Do get the latest drivers from Levono. It made a huge difference.
NZ Yue: ok people
Jaymin Carthage: I should check for new ones actually. It's been a while.
NZ Yue: it was pleasure meeting u all
NZ Yue: hope to see u all soon
Jaymin Carthage: THank you for coming NZ. Good luck with the group!
NZ Yue: tghanx jaymin
Andor Looby: Yue, if he doesn't come back you can send your question to me by email and I'll see what I can find out
NZ Yue: hoope all of us can give it a big suceess
Andor Looby: In real life I'm Andre Gurard
Andor Looby: Guirard
NZ Yue: plz
NZ Yue: can u gimme ur email addrss
You: If you are having display problems changing some options in display preferences
NZ Yue: can i send you the proposal that i send to my customer ?
Andor Looby: if it's short. I have plenty to read already. I would prefer a question.
Andor Looby: /nod
NZ Yue: sure
NZ Yue: i send it to techline as well
NZ Yue: but no reply yet since 15 days
Andor Looby: not sure who techline is, but there's also the dW forums
NZ Yue: i am forwarding you an email
NZ Yue: its only 5 liner
NZ Yue: u can have totally understanding by that
Andor Looby: Folks, I need to fly....
Jaymin Carthage: Thanks for coming Andor!
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Florent Upshaw
Jaymin Carthage: Much appreciated!
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Andor Looby
Jaymin Carthage: Well I guess we can say today that we stressed Second Life to it's limits! :-)
Jaymin Carthage: Hopefully next time we can have some more official topics.
Dominux Beery is Online
NZ Yue: thanx andor
NZ Yue: i sent u an email
NZ Yue: and thanx again for suppor t
You: Yes, thank you Jaymin
Jaymin Carthage: Andor had to go. But I'll pass that on.
NZ Yue: see ya all
Jaymin Carthage: He he. I'm just happy to have SL intersect with my day job! I got sucked into vounteer work last year.
Jaymin Carthage: See you NZ.
Jaymin Carthage: I'm not sure the medium is mature enough yet to get as much value as we could get out of it. But it's worth experimenting.
Jaymin Carthage: One thing I've been playing with is a sideshelf plugin for Notes.
Jaymin Carthage: You compose data in the spreadsheet PE and then select several fields.
Jaymin Carthage: Instead of creating a normal 2D chart, you drag it to the sideshelf and drop it on a SL integration widget.
Jaymin Carthage: You can select from a number of forms of 3D charts, and it then projects it into Second Life.
Jaymin Carthage: You can then view your data in "true" 3D, fly around it, etc.
Olivier Hildyard: ciao NZ
Welcome! shouts: Welcome Sandra Swot
Giuseppe Xeno: 2nd life is nice but still immature, we saw what appened today when there was a lot of people
Jaymin Carthage: Yes. I didn't expect more than 50. And it's _supposed_ to gracefully degrade!
Daniel Korro: Giuseppe, Jaymin is a crazy guy ;) Isn't him ?
Jaymin Carthage: He he.
Giuseppe Xeno: he is! but experiments like this are a good thing
Jaymin Carthage: But if some 3D platform is going to be ubiquitious in 10 years, better to learn it all now.
Jaymin Carthage: Someone was asking me on IM earlier why we bothered building buildings.
Daniel Korro: Absolutely agreed
Jaymin Carthage: 3D UI is very new. Why have stairs if you can fly? Well, if you don't have stairs, how do people know there is an upstairs?
Jaymin Carthage: I describe the IBM islands here like a 3D wiki.
Jaymin Carthage: We're trying all sorts of things out. Trying to see what works.
Jaymin Carthage: We're not going to get it right the first time.
Giuseppe Xeno: architatecture has to be a bit different anyway.... i mean: do we need a roof?
Jaymin Carthage: Yep. And 'accessibiliy' takes on whole new meanings.
Jaymin Carthage: My friend built a room once which was fine, till her friend with a jaguar avatar tried to get in.
Giuseppe Xeno: yeah, like leaving a speace between floors on skyscrapers so that people can "fly in"
Jaymin Carthage: I heard of a talk given to a librarian friend of mine years ago about the web.
Jaymin Carthage: He compared it to when cars were invented.
Jaymin Carthage: They were, literally, "horseless carriages". I.e. a horse carriage without the horse.
Jaymin Carthage: You then had a flurry of wild design. Much of it very odd to modern hindsight.
Jaymin Carthage: And eventually they settled on standard things like windscreen wipers, rear view mirrors, turn signals and everything we expect in a car today.
Jaymin Carthage: I think the "3D internet" is at the same point.
Giuseppe Xeno: we are just at the begging of a "real" metaverse. MUD from our experience are not the same
Giuseppe Xeno: and games have a different kind of use
Jaymin Carthage: True. You might say that MUDs were the precursor to Instant Messaging.
Giuseppe Xeno: so there will be a lot of wrong turns before we find a good way to live in 2nd life
Jaymin Carthage: I agree. There will be a lot of things I do differently if I get to run another client meeting like this!
Giuseppe Xeno: they where, i remember MUDing the whay years later chatted on IRC
Jaymin Carthage: He he.
Giuseppe Xeno: i think seats could be a good idea
Jaymin Carthage: What I like most about SL is that it reminds me of the original MOO, where you could actually build things in it.
Giuseppe Xeno: so people can be more stable in a place
Jaymin Carthage: The trouble isthat with peopel coming and going, the seats have to be dynamic.
Jaymin Carthage: I've seen a table that rezzes seats as more people arrive, but I think it's limit is 8.
Jaymin Carthage: It might be an idea to use the 3 platforms at the back for discussion areas about three specific topics.
Jaymin Carthage: have a greeter direct people accordingly.
Giuseppe Xeno: maybe for 2nd live there are pratical limits for the number of concurrent people that can attend a "barcamp" style meeting like that
Jaymin Carthage: But i had a staff of "one" for this. And some nice volunteers. :-)
Giuseppe Xeno: yes, so you can just segmentate the people and keep the number limited

Thomas Adrian

Feedback number WEBB72UF8E created by Thomas Adrian on 05/03/2007

Status: Open


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